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Listen Here: Jim Oblon Interview

Craig Garber:
Hey everybody. This is Craig Garber. Welcome to Everyone Loves Guitar. I got a special guest today. I’m with Jim Oblon. One of the top session players around just a great groove, great guitar player, you know, and he’s had a great career. But, uh, I actually met Jim on the show. I don’t know, like three or maybe five years ago even.

jim:
Five years ago.

Craig Garber:
Yeah. And, uh, I came to Nashville and we hung out and we became buddies ever since. So this is really cool to have my friend on the show again. And Jim’s got a great new album called I Need, I Want to Be Loved. It’s a really cool album, Jimmy Reed covers. And what I’m going to do is put Jim’s original interview behind this one. So if you missed it the first time around, you can check it out. He’s a super cool guy, interesting, bright, all that good stuff. And just a tremendous musician. All right. Cliff notes for Jim, born into a musical family in Connecticut, started playing professionally at the ripe old age of 12. My cat is, I don’t know if you can hear it. Uh, Jim’s a rare breed cause he’s a phenomenal guitarist, but he’s equally adept at drums. And that’s not easy to play at that skill level on two different instruments. Uh, Jim’s played on five Paul Simon albums. He did multiple world tours with Paul Simon playing guitar, bass and drums on Paul’s 2011 album called so beautiful or so what, which was produced by Phil Ramone. And he also worked for Phil Ramone as a session, a studio musician, rather outside of working with Paul. Other Sidemen activity includes recently touring and performing on the Cinda Williams latest album, playing on Andrea Zahn’s recording called Rise, along with Steve Gad, Willie Weeks and Vince Gill. Not a bad cast as well as records with artists, Rodney Crowe, Swamp Dogg, Janice Ian and others. He released his first solo guitar record in 2014 with the amazing Jim Keltner on drums and Larry Goldings on organ. That was called sunset on compass records. I would check out all the Jim’s records or anywhere you stream. He’s got a new one. we’ll talk about later. Other virtuosos that have played on Jim’s solo records include Robin Ford and pedal steel legend Lloyd Green. And I guess this is a big thing, I should say this now, because I see this everywhere. If you know, you know, like Lloyd Green. Do you see that all the time?

jim:
No,

Craig Garber:
I, F, Y, I see that

jim:
I…

Craig Garber:
all

jim:
Oh, I

Craig Garber:
over.

jim:
don’t know that, no.

Craig Garber:
Yeah, I see that all over. At my advanced age, I try to pick up on anything I can. Other than the special guest Jim plays all the instruments on all of his solo releases in total. He’s released five full length studio albums, several EPs and singles and a really cool cover of Where Did You Sleep Last Night, which got picked up as the song running over the end credits on episode of the HBO series True Blood. And that song blew up as a single.

jim:
I think it was actually where that girl was dressed up as Red Riding Hood in the season finale. That’s

Craig Garber:
Oh,

jim:
where…

Craig Garber:
okay. Yeah.

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
Right. I remember that we used to

jim:
Okay.

Craig Garber:
watch that. That was cool. Yeah. Jim’s got a new album. It’s a set is called I want to be loved. It’s an album of cool Jimmy Reed blues covers, and it’s a duo record with Jim O’Blon and Jim Keltner playing drums and Jim O’Blon’s playing everything else. And I’m excited to let you know that Jim O’Blon is also the guy who wrote, played and produced the opening and closing bumper music. If you listen to the podcast on audio, our pop, my podcast, everyone loves guitar talk show and podcast, uh, Jim’s that’s all Jim’s work on there. So I love that. And, uh, now we pull back the mask. And, uh, again, this is not Jim’s first time on the show. I’m gonna include his original interview since you, in case you missed it first time around, Jim, this is very awkward having you on the show.

jim:
Yeah, well, no, thanks for having me on again to talk about the record. I really appreciate it.

Craig Garber:
Awkward in a good way. It’s like, wait a minute, we just spoke last night.

jim:
Yeah. I know.

Craig Garber:
Uh, so before we talk about the new record, I had a couple of questions for you. And for starters, and I don’t know how we haven’t talked about this, you’re playing style, you play without a pick. And so how did you develop that? And was like that how you started playing from day one or

jim:
Well, I studied classical guitar when I was 12 or 13 and kept it up for maybe a couple of years, but I just wasn’t disciplined enough for it. I wish I was looking back on it, but what it did do was I did learn the right hand technique of playing with your fingers and you have to keep your nails kind of… not polished, but you needed to keep up on your nails. And then I played with a pick, and then later on, I had seen a picture of Chet Atkins playing, and he had a thumb pick on, and I was like, right. There’s electric guitar players that play with their fingers, and I knew Albert Collins played with his fingers. Freddie King did with finger picks, although I think he used… picks on his index finger too, you know,

Craig Garber:
Just,

jim:
like

Craig Garber:
yeah,

jim:
a met…

Craig Garber:
just his index finger. It was like his thumb and index finger.

jim:
Thumb and index finger and then, so I don’t know how many blues guys, you know, use the thumb picks, but so many of them played with their fingers and I just thought, oh, you know, I played classical guitar and like, let me, I bought it, went to a store, bought a thumb pick and then I kind of just liked the way it felt, honestly, you know, where… And how it started out is I would just play stock licks that I was already playing, slow them down and just figure out the fingering. And then over time, that became my playing style. And I don’t really play with a flat pick that much. Sometimes I do, but it’s pretty basic. You know, it’s like sometimes when I want to maybe slow myself down a little bit, I’ll play with a flat pick. And so that’s basically how that technique came about. And it happened over the course of like… 10 or 15 years where I didn’t think about, like, oh, I’m switching it, it just, this is how I started to play, you know? So that’s how it came about.

Craig Garber:
That’s really cool. And I love, cause Jim’s got some really cool videos on YouTube, on his channel. So you should definitely check them out. But you know, that one video of you with the Epiphone always comes to mind. It’s so,

jim:
Oh yeah, with the trio in that studio

Craig Garber:
yeah.

jim:
in Nashville. Yeah, that’s a good one. Yeah.

Craig Garber:
That’s a great one. The music is so good. And I’m just watching you play with that. And I was like, wow, that just looks so cool. And it just, you know, it sounds great.

jim:
Yeah, thank you.

Craig Garber:
So, uh, you’re welcome, man. You’re very melodic both in your compositions and in your playing, but when it’s appropriate, you really do let it rip. And I don’t want to call it shredding because to me, shredding implies the focused is on the technique, right? But there are plenty

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
of times You know, say the outro of a song, for example, where you’re, where you’re going to take the solo and it’s, it’s blazing, but it’s melodic. Like I could hum your soul. I could, I could hum your solos. I’d want to sit down and like figure them out on myself, you know? But I was curious, how do you play again with a pick that fast? It’s almost like, I don’t know, like the eighth wonder of the world or something.

jim:
Well, I almost call it like fake fast because it’s like Yngwie Malmsteen, I was listening to his record the other day. I know guys are like split on him, but I like him. Like the first record, what is it? Rising Force or something like that with

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
the Strat coming out of the flames. And I mean, he’s doing like alternate picking and playing fast, but really with, I feel like when I play fast, it’s, you’re splitting up everything. So I’m doing a lot of hammers on and a lot of pull-offs and then I’m not playing everything with one finger. So I might play one note with my thumb, pull off two notes in my left hand, then hit another note with my index finger. So it’s almost like if you, if you play a single stroke roll and you, you alternate left, right, left, right, left, right, and you do it as fast as you can, it sounds fast, but if you take away one hand, It’s half as fast, if that makes

Craig Garber:
Okay.

jim:
sense.

Craig Garber:
So you’re using your other fingers, but still that’s

jim:
Use

Craig Garber:
like, it’s hard to do man, because not

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
then you got the timing is,

jim:
Right,

Craig Garber:
you

jim:
but

Craig Garber:
know.

jim:
it really is split up. The responsibilities are split up. So it’s never like, it’s, you know, and I feel like it happens in bursts. Like, you know, some guys can just, doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle-doodle

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
sitting there, like in my mind, how I’m splitting it up, nothing is working that hard, if it makes sense. Because of the hammers on, the pull-offs, then I’m hitting different notes with three different fingers, so it’s, you know what I mean? It’s not even

Craig Garber:
Yes.

jim:
like I’m alternating that fast between my thumb and my index finger. I can only get so fast with that, so it’s, you know what I’m saying. It might sound a little fast. It’s… It’s yeah, it’s just split up. The responsibility is split up, if that makes sense at all. Kind of crazy to talk about, you know, responsibility in your hands.

Craig Garber:
No, but it makes sense, but it still, it just sounds great and it seems impossible to do

jim:
Cool.

Craig Garber:
for someone like me. I’m just looking at it. Hey Jim, I cannot see you at all. There’s like a weird character

jim:
Huh.

Craig Garber:
on the screen. It’s, did you get a call or something maybe?

jim:
Um,

Craig Garber:
Okay,

jim:
no.

Craig Garber:
yeah, it says your internet needs to, it says live video will return when your internet improves. God, we can’t get

jim:
I mean,

Craig Garber:
a break here. Okay.

jim:
I’m

Craig Garber:
Now it’s

jim:
at

Craig Garber:
back

jim:
a…

Craig Garber:
all of a sudden.

jim:
Okay, because it says I’m at

Craig Garber:
Yes.

jim:
96%. I mean, I’m on like 5G.

Craig Garber:
So weird. Okay.

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
I’m gonna just take

jim:
Okay,

Craig Garber:
me

jim:
you

Craig Garber:
just

jim:
can

Craig Garber:
write

jim:
cut

Craig Garber:
down

jim:
that

Craig Garber:
the

jim:
little part

Craig Garber:
time.

jim:
out then.

Craig Garber:
No, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I just

jim:
Okay.

Craig Garber:
Alrighty. So, you know, making an album isn’t easy, especially nowadays, as everybody knows. What was your motivation to put another record out?

jim:
I’ll be honest with you, I didn’t necessarily want to, but the one thing that I had always wanted to do was record with Jim Keltner one more time. And we had made a record in 2012, and it was released in 2014. And I always meant to do something else with him. And right around when the pandemic hit, I was going to do something with him. And I was like, yeah, now’s the time. That got delayed, obviously, for three years. But the other thing that happened is I kind of developed this thing called the mono cord, which is a telecaster. I put a bass string on it and heavy jazz strings. It’s tuned to an open chord. The lowest note is like a low G on a bass. And then it has separate outputs. The neck output goes to a bass amp. pickup goes to, or I should say the neck pickup goes to a bass amp, the bridge pickup goes to a distorted guitar amp. And basically, if everybody remembers Bo Diddley’s original hit, you know, that Bo Diddley thing, he played in an open G and you didn’t really hear the bass that much on it. And so to me, it was like an updated version of Bo Diddley where, but only down an octave. So it… was meant to be just this riff machine where you don’t play it like a bass or a guitar, you just, every time you play a chord, you’re just playing it with your index finger and then you, let’s say you need to go to the four chord in a blues, then you just slide up to the four chord. And so I had been messing around with that and I thought, oh wow, why not make an album of like old blues covers with that sound? And basically I’d never made a strict blues record before. And what’s cool about Jim Keltner is that everybody knows him for the sort of rock and roll royalty. You know, Bob Dylan, John Lennon, played the drums of the Traveling Wilburys and you know, you name it, just top LA session guy. But also, I was like looking at his discography and it’s like played with Freddie King, B.B. King, Albert on the, that’s my favorite Albert King record.

Craig Garber:
Obokan record. Yeah.

jim:
Yeah, played with Gate Mouth Brown, John Lee Hooker. I mean, it’s

Craig Garber:
Oh,

jim:
just

Craig Garber:
I didn’t know

jim:
like,

Craig Garber:
he was so deep

jim:
oh,

Craig Garber:
in that in the blues.

jim:
it’s like the, all my favorite blues, I think even played with, on a record with Albert Collins also. So he’s like, you know, not only is he, you know, known for like rock and roll royalty, but actually, oh, Buddy Guy, he played with Buddy Guy too. So it’s like blues royalty also. You know what I mean in

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
a way? And he was on my favorite Clapton record, you know, that record from the Cradle. I think that was released

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
in the 90s. And that’s Jim Keltner on that. So really it was like, okay, the main motivation is, boy, I’d love to record with Keltner. But then the question was, what would the project be? And then because I developed this thing, I call it the monochord. And then it was almost like I wanted to take all the elements that I liked about the blues and include it in this album. Obviously the album I never thought of like setting the world on fire or making any money. This is a complete like, you know, labor of love where it was almost like I just needed to meet an expectation within myself more than anything else. And also collect the stuff that I liked most about that blues genre. And so this… I hope I’m not going on a tangent, but I would like to… Okay, good. I wanna kind of explain all elements to it. And my favorite stuff about that genre of music is would be like Bo Diddley. I mean, and he’s sort of like rock and roll blues. Then I liked the really early Howl and Wolf stuff that was recorded at Sun Studios in Memphis. Before things moved to Chicago, I thought it was like a little bit more raw. And on a lot of those recordings, there’s no bass player. It’s just drums, piano, Howlin’ Wolf, and then Willie Johnson on guitar. And I sorta wanted to go for, even though it’s a Jimmy Reid covers record, the reason why I chose Jimmy Reid is that those are the songs I like to sing the most. But really it’s

Craig Garber:
Okay.

jim:
not trying to do Jimmy Reid as Jimmy Reid. It’s almost like using Jimmy Reid as a vehicle to try and get back to the early Howlin’ Wolf records and throw some Bow Diddley in there. And if that makes sense, it was just sort of like, take

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
all the ingredients of the blues that I like. And I even went as so far to, we don’t know for sure what Willie Johnson used on those early Howl on Wolf records, but from the photographs, a couple of photographs, I think it was a Supra Ozard guitar that has a Vistatone pickup in it. And they were, it was a particular sound, that pickup. through a small amplifier. So I was able to track down a Vistatone pickup and have one installed in a Telecaster. And then I kind of simulated Willie Johnson’s guitar rig for the solos on that record. So it’s kind of wild in the fact that, like, if you could make a cartoon of it, it’d almost be like, Bo Diddley is playing the monochord, you know, Willie Johnson is playing the guitar solos, Jimmy Reed is singing, you know what I mean? And so it was just like, and I feel like Willie Johnson got a bad turn because there’s a collection, like if you, if anybody wants to search it out, just go to YouTube and type in Willie Johnson Electric. Now there’s a blind Willie Johnson who is an acoustic blues guy who’s way more famous than Willie Johnson. So, but Willie Johnson, was playing on those, again, those early Howlin’ Wolf records, and like, predated the British Invasion. Like, you wouldn’t believe, like, it’s the most distorted, saturated guitar sound. Like, I mean, it is, it’s more raw. It’s almost like the guy has a fuzz pedal on. I mean, it is so raw. And talk, I mean, I just feel like calling him Future Man or something like that, because he… Everybody talks about Clapton and the Beano album with the Marshall and the Les Paul, which is amazing. I mean, it’s a great sound.

Craig Garber:
Yes.

jim:
But Willie Johnson was doing this more aggressive, distorted thing in like 1953 or 1954, and kind of history just washes over him. Maybe

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
because those recordings are not as cohesive as other stuff, or maybe it didn’t make an impact. Culturally as much as like the British blues invasion did But um, but those are kind of the elements and so I feel good in some ways where Even if people don’t check out my record or my music I hope that they go to YouTube and just type in Willie Johnson like electric guitar and people have put playlists together so you can go there and Just check out his guitar playing on those early howling wolf sides and you’re like, oh my goodness. This is so it’s almost like punk rock, electric blues, I mean I can’t believe how raw it is, you know, for that time period.

Craig Garber:
where you turned me on to that

jim:
So that’s…

Craig Garber:
when you told me about that wolf docu, sorry, I’m sorry about that.

jim:
Yeah, no, sure,

Craig Garber:
You turned me on to that with that

jim:
but that’s basically…

Craig Garber:
Howlin’ Wolf documentary.

jim:
Yeah, exactly. And so that was the motivation. And honestly, I was the most nervous because I didn’t know if this concept would work because it’s basically how the recording happened is I called up Jim, you know, there was no rehearsals. I sent him some iPhone recordings of me playing the monochord and singing and he was like, yeah, let’s do it. And he, you know, he doesn’t need to rehearse that kind of material. So we just settled into the studio for two days and I sat with the monochord sang, he sat at the drum set, we were in the same room, we played live and then we just recorded the album in two days. It was either first or second take. And then I hung around for a day playing solos and then I did finished solos doing at a friend’s place. So the guitar solos were overdubbed, but essentially the duo part of the recording was recorded live. And also… That’s about it. There’s no heavy overdubs in terms of percussion or anything. It’s just drums, this low guitar, and then me overdubbing the guitar solos. And that was how the record was made. So it’s pretty raw, you know?

Craig Garber:
Thanks, man. You always have that sound. That I have asked you a hundred times. How do you

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
get that distorted sound, Jim? You tell me about your amps. Of course, it’s just unique to you, but you always have that sound. That’s one of the things I like about your guitar.

jim:
Yeah, and especially on that, people were asking me about what amp that is. And I mean, honestly, you can kind of get a four or five watt amp. And if you mic it correctly, it can sound like just ginormous. You know, like how I did that. There’s, you know, it’s like a four or four or five watt amplifier. You put a microphone on the amp, but then also, you put some ambient mics up. And all of a sudden, it sounds way huge. You know, it’s way bigger than a little from the little amp that it is. So and then and then

Craig Garber:
Sure.

jim:
that way, you don’t really have to use pedals or anything like that. You know, and it’s almost I mean, there are going to be some small amps that are better than others, but pretty much you can kind of get that sound from a small amplifier, you know, but any anything from the 50s or 60s, you know. And so. That’s, but also though, that Vistatone pickup is kind of a unique sound and that pickup through a small amp I felt like is the thing that captured that vibe, if that makes sense.

Craig Garber:
Where did that Vistatone come from? Like, do you know where it was?

jim:
Um…

Craig Garber:
What kind of a guitar it was on prior?

jim:
The first time I’ve seen it was on a national or a Supro Ozark, but it’s a one pickup model. It looks like, you know, they call it like mother of toilet seat, that white pearl. It’s a very, very small

Craig Garber:
Ha ha ha.

jim:
bodied guitar. And the neck, it’s a pickup that attaches to the neck. And it looks like a humbug. It’s like the size of a humbucker. but actually it’s a single coil in a plastic enclosure. And someone described it as being half Stratocaster, half P90, but I don’t even know if that’s adequate. It just kind of has this woofy muscular tone where the corners are rounded on it. Like there’s nothing sharp about it. And sometimes small amps, you know, they could have a high frequency, but I think maybe that’s the fuzz aspect of it where you’re kind of putting this But it’s very, very powerful. It’s about as powerful as a P90. So you’re putting this powerful pickup that’s maybe on the edge of being muddy through a really distorted small guitar amp and all of a sudden it just, the harmonics start coming out of it. It’s pretty wild, you know? So that’s the story of the Vistatone. A couple people made copies of them. I think Roadhouse made a Vistatone pickup and then he stopped making them. I think Supro, the modern day Supro made some of those, but I don’t know. I wanted an original one and it took me a couple of years to find it and maybe I paid 250 bucks for it or something like that, but it ended up working out because that’s the except maybe for one song I used a bridge pickup on something, but for the rest of the stuff the whole album, all the solos are on that Vistatone pickup. You know, so that’s,

Craig Garber:
Yeah, and it sounds great.

jim:
you know, and it’s,

Craig Garber:
Where did you get that reverb?

jim:
it was kind of fun to, yeah, even, um, that, that’s added after like in mixing and, but, but a lot of the reverb actually was, um, when I finished the solos at my friend’s place, it was a very hard room. So it was really like this, you know, the, the sound is bouncing off the walls and the floor. So with, with those two room mics. you’re getting the reverb of the whole room. And so it’s almost like you’re not using the microphone.

Craig Garber:
Gotcha.

jim:
The microphone on the amp is in the mix, but also the room mics are really picking up the full, kind of muscular thing of it. So it was interesting to kind of chase the dragon in a way and in my own way. try and find my way back to those sounds and those grooves. And I think it worked, but even Keltner in the studio, he was like, so you’re gonna lay a bass on this too? And I was like, no, I’m like, this is gonna be just, kinda almost like garage rock in a way, where it’s just, I just wanted to leave it as live and as raw as possible. And I think… I think it came out good, you know, I think it came out good.

Craig Garber:
Yeah, it came out great. What I asked you before, the internet’s a little wonky.

jim:
Good. Okay, I’m glad you think so.

Craig Garber:
Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I think there’s a delay here, but what I had said before is did you get that pickup on reverb?

jim:
Yes, oh yeah, I didn’t hear that. Yeah, I did get that pick up on reverb and um, I haven’t seen one since to be honest with you. It was a kind of a rare find to um, yeah. And I think

Craig Garber:
Yeah, I’ve never even heard of it.

jim:
the time that a Supro Ozark showed up, like, yeah, and then is it the kills that duo, you know, that band of the guy and the girl,

Craig Garber:
Yeah, I know. Yep.

jim:
Allison, I think her name is, he, you know who I’m talking about? He plays a Supro Ozark

Craig Garber:
Uh, it’s.

jim:
guitar, so if you wanted to see what, yeah. He plays one of those with

Craig Garber:
Okay, the kills.

jim:
the Vistatone pickup. It looks like a… It looks like a toy guitar in a way. So, but if people wanted, were interested in seeing what that model looked like, you know. Yeah.

Craig Garber:
This, as you mentioned, this was not your first time playing with Keltner. And I know he doesn’t just play on anyone’s records. How did you first connect with him? And, uh, I know you’ve always had special, what was special about the chemistry you guys shared initially. Cause you’ve always, you know, as long as I know that’s been one of your best experiences.

jim:
Yeah, I mean, I’ve just been a fan of his drumming for my whole life. And I was teaching Paul Simon’s son and I would go to the house. And like one time before I started working with Paul Simon professionally, they were, he was playing a show at Madison Square Garden, you know, with Simon and Garfunkel and they, they were like, Hey, you want tickets? And I was like, yeah, of course I want tickets. And so they, they hooked me up with these great tickets and, And then Keltner was playing drums with Simon Garfunkel. And then that was the first time I saw him live. And then I was able to go to another concert and I was backstage and I talked to security and I went in back of the stage and there was like a staircase leading up to the stage. So I kind of sat on the staircase where no one in the audience could see me but I had like a direct beeline to Keltner. And so I just kind of watched him play drums, the whole Simon and Garfunkel show. And I’m just, you know, just watching him move. It was just so cool. And I met him that night. He seemed like such a nice guy. And then when I had toured with Paul Simon my first year, I felt like I wanted to make a solo record. And I thought, oh, how cool would it be to make a trio record, you know, with Keltner and Larry Golding’s on organ. And my friend put me in touch with them. And then we just became friends. And when I… played with Paul Simon from then on. Every time we’d come through LA, I’d get Jim and his wife tickets to the Paul Simon show and they’d come hang out. And so we stayed friends and we just always had, it seemed like a nice chemistry where I just called him and he was like, yeah, sure. You know, it wasn’t, you know, at that point, he’s like, yeah, let’s just do it. So that’s how it happened.

Craig Garber:
That’s cool.

jim:
You know, it was like very matter of fact. Yeah.

Craig Garber:
Yeah. What’s the you’ve done it you’ve you’ve done a lot of solo records. What’s the most enjoyable thing for you when you’re an artist playing on your own records versus when you’re playing as a side man?

jim:
Um, I think that, well, it’s definitely a different experience. Um, I think the solo records are actually way more stressful, even though it’s enjoyable, but it’s just the, the getting the mix right, getting the mastering right and you know, like the playing, excuse me, the playing part of it is the most fun and then hearing the music come together for the first time. But then mixing it and mastering it is just like a bear. It’s just like, I feel like it’s like fighting a grizzly bear because it’s just, especially in the modern day that we live in, there’s so many options. Like you can approach mixing a record from like 14 million different ways. You can make it sound like the 1960s. You can make it sound like the 1970s. How retro do you want it to sound? How modern do you want it? So it’s really… just trying to find the best way to find the mix that represents the music the best. So even though I think maybe the projects I play on with on my own stuff, it’s just, again, it’s more stressful like when I made the records with Paul Simon. It’s like, oh cool, all right, I’m interested to wait to see, you know, I played on it. And then, oh, what will the record sound like when it comes out? Like, you know, and sometimes I would hear some mixes and stuff like that, but it was more like, oh, cool. You know, and then, but there’s none of that fighting how the mix is gonna be done. And will I get the mastering right? Did I choose the right mastering guy? All that kind of, you know, the, just the, I don’t know how to describe it. Dare I say it’s, you know, like. like birth pains or something like that, you know, where it’s just sort of,

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
you know, and then you, the other problem about it is working on something, it’s almost like going into an art museum and trying to look at the painting from two inches away, you know, and that’s the other thing that happens where it’s like,

Craig Garber:
Yeah, you-

jim:
you can focus in on, oh my God, that note is driving me crazy, and then two years later you hear it and you don’t hear what you were hearing. You can kind of get into this micromanaging

Craig Garber:
Right.

jim:
the mix thing and whittling away and whittling away at it to where you just suck all the life out of it. And so that’s the main, I think making the solo records is more challenging. So in that way.

Craig Garber:
Yeah, you’ve always been pretty good though. Even though I know it’s tough what you’re saying, but you’re pretty timely with your mixes and stuff. I guess you know it gives you stress,

jim:
Yeah, I-

Craig Garber:
but you know when to fish and cut bait.

jim:
Yeah, it’s always like, and it’s funny, it’s almost like, the times when I know it’s right is when it almost clicks emotionally, if that makes sense, where all of a sudden it just goes like, oh,

Craig Garber:
Oh yeah?

jim:
yeah, that feels good, this is it. But trust me, there’s like sleepless nights of like, oh my God, that guitar’s too loud, I gotta call the mix guy in the morning and then I’ll lose sleep over. Like you would think that you’d be like, okay, go to sleep. First thing I do is call the mix guy, but then I’ll obsess about calling the mix guy all night. If that makes sense where it’s like, you know, it’s like it needs to happen right now. And that’s the, if that makes sense that it’s, it’s just neurotic. It’s really, it’s just, you know, I just, it’s like crazy making, making a record. It just, it just drives me crazy. And, and I. I feel like I can’t focus on anything else. That’s my only focus until it’s done. So, and then I’m kind of wiped out after it. And then that happened this time, you know, so, but that’s, if that makes sense, that’s the difference. To me, it’s just way more, it’s more stressful, honestly, you know?

Craig Garber:
You know, that is literally the same answer that everybody that I’ve asked that question to gives. It’s like, it’s there. Everybody’s like, basically, oh my God, it’s so much easier to be a side person, you know, for the same reason.

jim:
Yeah, but then I will say this is that, not with Paul Simon, but other people, sometimes the mix comes out and I go like, no, I thought the rough mix sounded better, you know? And a lot of times, like I played electric on one album and then when the album came out, there was just a little bit of electric on it and they kind of had turned it into an acoustic record. And I was like, oh wow, okay, that, you know, like it’s just, you never know, you could play on a whole record and then sometimes halfway through they choose to take the album in a different direction. And it’s like, oh, I thought I was gonna be on that record, but you know, it’s so, it’s weird because, you know, I will say what was cool about working with Paul Simon and Phil Ramone was this like, well, these guys are not gonna screw up the mix. That was like a good, it was just like, well, I know when this comes out, it’s gonna sound

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
great and it did. It sounded really great. So, yeah.

Craig Garber:
Hey, I want to talk about a few of my favorite tracks on the new record. The, uh, ain’t that loving you baby.

jim:
Okay.

Craig Garber:
Uh, I like that one. Cause I, first of all, I love to hear you sing because he, even though we speak often, it’s just a different context listening to you on records and it’s always, uh, I don’t know, it’s just interesting to hear you sing when I, when I, we talk again, we talk often, but your voice is different. It context is different, you know, But, um, this track I felt is also a great example of that awesome guitar

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
tone that you get. And, uh, so I, I would just, you know, I, you, I asked you a question earlier

jim:
Yeah, and I think that

Craig Garber:
that was an action about how do you get the tone in the studio?

jim:
one is…

Craig Garber:
You said with the low wattage amp, but I would encourage if you’re listening

jim:
Yeah

Craig Garber:
to this, check out that tune, ain’t that loving you baby. If you’re looking for a good guitar tone. Uh, I also liked the title track very much.

jim:
Yeah,

Craig Garber:
I want to be loved.

jim:
that’s actually

Craig Garber:
And I thought it was.

jim:
one of my favorite tracks also.

Craig Garber:
I thought it was really cool. What’s that?

jim:
Oh, I just said that was one of my favorite tracks also.

Craig Garber:
Oh, cool. Cool. The title track is great because I loved how Keltner like uses that crash symbol at the beginning, right after your guitar lines. And it’s almost like the symbol was the tail end of the actual guitar line. And I just thought it sounded so cool. And I was wondering if that’s something you guys discussed or, you know, is, how did that just come out naturally? Because to me, that’s an example of something small really adding a ton of firepower musically.

jim:
Yeah, I think that’s just the magic of Keltner where, you know, it’s almost like we go in and say, okay, like, I’ll just say, hey, I think this one was a shuffle. And that’s pretty much the direction, all the direction I’d give him, or I’d say, this is a backbeat, or, and then I’d play a little bit and maybe I’d sing the drum groove to him of what I was hearing. And then whatever happened after that was just all him. You know, so it was really kind of just, he’s a magical guy. And again, when we made the record, he was 80 years old and it’s just amazing all the records that he played on. And I’m really just so thankful that I got a chance to record with him another time and just document, you know, kind of again. It’s, you know, I may, you know, my other records, it’s, I’m not like exclusively blues or any, people sometimes put me in the category of like a blues guitarist, but I, I feel like I’m more coming out of the traditional, like Roy Buchanan, where it’s that sort of meeting place of country, blues, a little bit of jazz. And I almost look at it like American music, but this was the one. time where it’s like, oh, this is specifically a blues record. And like I, um, when I was 12 years old, the other record that I really liked was, uh, it was Albert Collins, Johnny Copeland and Robert Cray record called Showdown. And I, that’s still one of my favorite electric guitar

Craig Garber:
Yeah, I know that record.

jim:
records. And, um, yeah, it’s great record, great record. And so it was almost, again, it was almost like a thing of like, man, I’ve never done a straight up blues record. let me do a straight up blues record, but then it’s also like pretty left to center or a little bit avant-garde because using this low guitar on it was, you know, a little bit taking a chance or whatever. But to me again, that’s what harkened back to the early Holland Wolf sides where it’s like, it’s just not bass heavy and somehow when the music as the bands got bigger, then you needed more structure and framework within the music. And then that kind of made it less rural. Like the early blues stuff, the rural stuff is super wild because, you know, if it’s just a solo person, they can change chords whenever they want to change chords. And so to me, that early Howlin’ Wolf stuff was, even though it was electric, it felt like half electric, half rural music. And again, that’s kind of what the vibe that I… tried to get back to on this thing where it was just more experimental and so that and that’s the you know that’s the gist of it so

Craig Garber:
Well, you got, I think you accomplished it because it sounds very much like in that genre, that period, another track that I really loved.

jim:
Great. Thank you.

Craig Garber:
And, Oh, you’re welcome. I think there’s a delay. Sorry, Jim. Uh, another track I loved and you talked about your monochord was, uh,

jim:
Oh no, it’s okay.

Craig Garber:
tell me that you love me. And You know, again, I, when we spoke, I said, is that a baritone?

jim:
Yeah.

Craig Garber:
And that’s what you explained the whole monochord, but talk about that track.

jim:
Yeah, that track is actually a voodoo rhythm. And I think we tried that as a shuffle. And then I just said, well, why don’t we try this other groove and like the voodoo rhythm goes, bum, it’s like kind of a traditional Haitian. rhythm and I just thought it’d be cool to try it in this tell me that you love me you know the jimmy reed cover um but the monochord seemed to really speak in that in that track because there’s a lot of space you know and it almost sounds like a synthesizer or something like that where um and so that that’s basically not much more than that you know it was just like hey and then I said that hey this is this rhythm and Jim was like yeah okay you know and that’s cool with Keldner, it’s just like, hey, it goes like this. And then he just eats it up and does his Van Gogh painting around it. You know, it’s like, it’s really

Craig Garber:
Yeah.

jim:
his drumming, he’s really kind of a genius in how he plays and just how loose and free. And even though it’s groove music or roots music blues, he’s almost playing it from a jazz drummer’s perspective too where it’s this sort of rolling, you know, interesting. never plays the same thing twice type of thing, you know, like stream of consciousness drumming or something like that. And it’s amazing. Like we, I think there’s two versions. I picked a certain, you know, of a, I want to be loved, but it’s amazing. Even the differences between the takes of each one, they sound completely different. It’s not like, um, you know, it just, it just happens in the moment and it only happened that one time that way. And, uh, And that’s sort of the nature of the beast with him and with that style of music also.

Craig Garber (00:01.687)
Hey, so before we go, I just want to ask you this. You’ve had a ton of really cool musical experiences and I was curious, like what’s the best musical advice you’ve ever been given and who gave it to you?

jim (00:14.722)
Um.

jim (00:18.058)
You know, it’s a tough question to answer. Let me think.

jim (00:25.946)
I’ve, you know, it’s one of those things where I don’t know if anybody ever sat me down and told me something, but I think it’s more just through watching people around me. But I will say maybe the person that comes to mind is Phil Ramone. When I worked on that first record with Paul Simon, we would have lunch after we would record and Paul would be working.

like in the control room and then I’d have lunch with Phil Ramone. And I just asked him questions about recording microphones and, um, he just gave me a ton of advice, a ton of advice about recording. And one of the things that he said was when it comes to, uh, recording live to capture the sound the way you want it. So that way you don’t have to EQ after or process it is really, he, he was huge on mic.

placement and just getting the sound going in. And so I always took, you know, I think that was probably just something that has stuck with me when making my own recordings is just trying to get the sound you want without having to manipulate it after the fact, you know?

Craig Garber (01:43.651)
So like sharpen your axe, basically. Yeah.

jim (01:46.842)
Yeah, well, I mean, I had a photographer tell me one time that he shoots to edit. And I thought that was like the worst thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Like, why would you want to shoot to edit? You know, like I, you I want to shoot to capture the thing with minimal, minimal editing post-production as possible. You know, and so, but I mean, but that’s also a, you know, one of.

Craig Garber (02:07.769)
Yeah.

jim (02:11.946)
maybe like an old world pre-technology or when technology was in its infancy, maybe that’s that mindset, but that’s what I would like to stay with, where it’s like you wanna capture something when it’s happening, and with as little filters on it as possible. So I guess that’s the thing that, if that’s the first thing that came to mind when you asked that question, and I think that is the…

Probably the best advice musically I’ve been given from someone.

Craig Garber (02:44.383)
Capture the sound upfront from Phil Ramone. Yeah, that’s a, you know, it’s interesting. You mentioned photography, cause that’s a hobby of mine is photography. And I don’t, and I don’t know if I ever told you that, but when I see all these beautiful pictures online and they’re heavily saturated in a lot of work in post-production.

jim (02:51.778)
Huh.

jim (03:09.879)
Yeah.

Craig Garber (03:10.163)
And maybe it’s because I don’t have that capacity. Like I don’t have the time to sit and learn that stuff today, but I always want to get the nice shot upfront. It’s exactly what you’re saying. I don’t want to worry about, you know, I want to get the lighting right, but most importantly, the right shot upfront. And then it’s done, you know, so.

jim (03:29.322)
Yeah, and it’s sort of like the world, we live in a world of sort of Instagram filters in a way where I can have a coffee and a cigar right now and if I took the picture with my phone, it wouldn’t look that interesting, but then you throw a filter on it. And it’s not to say that you don’t wanna maybe dirty up a signal or add a little saturation, but I mean, it’s just a thing where I just feel like I wanna stay with the old world art of it.

as opposed to like, let’s fix it in post production and get the scalpels out. And, you know, it just doesn’t seem, it just doesn’t seem right, you know? Like, and also more like way more work, you know? Like, I mean.

Craig Garber (04:08.647)
Totally agree with that.

Craig Garber (04:13.442)
Yeah!

And that’s the stuff. Yeah. I was saying, that’s the stuff that like, there’s no end to that. When you lay down this sound, you’re done. Yeah.

jim (04:16.226)
Just get it going. Yeah.

jim (04:24.041)
Oh, y-

Yeah, no, there’s a Leica camera I wish I could get. It’s just a dedicated black and white camera, but that glass that they have is, Leica glass is really, you know, there’s something about that, you know, and I was comparing images and it’s, one of these days I’ll get around to it, but it’ll probably just sit on the, sit on the shelf if I could get it, you know, it’s like.

Craig Garber (04:49.6)
Like like a Leica get like a Leica cameras you talked about

jim (04:52.026)
Yeah, yeah, there’s one in particular. I forget which one it is, but it’s a dedicated black and white. It’s a digital one, but it’s a dedicated black and white. And it just, I just thought it was cool, you know.

Craig Garber (04:58.555)
Yeah.

It’s funny, I have this little Rico here and most of the time I shoot in black and white with it. I mean, I could shoot in color and then again, flip the switch, but I like to catch the grainy sort of. I’m doing street photography. So I kind of like, I think that’s better for that for me. Uh, and let’s close this interview out with the same question only this time about life in general, what’s the best life advice you’ve ever been given and who gave it to you?

jim (05:08.247)
Yeah!

jim (05:16.474)
Okay. Sure.

jim (05:26.306)
Um, okay, boy, this is, I need to drink more coffee before these questions. Um, this is, um, you know, I think it’s, I think the, maybe, maybe it’s the best advice, but it’s also the hardest advice where it’s like, you know, I try and work on myself and, um, just try and.

do positive changes and, you know, look for old patterns that don’t work and try and eradicate those old patterns. And a really good close friend said to me, you know, he says, you start doing that and sometimes you have to leave people in the dust. And like, it’s almost like you when you start making changes for the better, you want to leave old patterns. Not everybody’s going to be on board with that. And sometimes

either relationships fall apart or you have to leave. You just have to leave things that I never thought I’d have to leave. But it’s a choice between like myself or my own sanity or just kind of staying in the mud. And that was probably the best but hardest advice, but it’s also the truest advice that I’ve ever been given. Where it’s unfortunately, when I, it’s just almost like.

Hey, if you’re going to the bar every night and you’re drinking and you have friends that are drinking and then you want to stop drinking, you know what I mean? It like not all those people are going to be out. You’re going to have to find some new friends basically. But but that’s just a pretty clear example. But I’m even talking more like emotionally or just thinking patterns, you know, and just it’s that’s tough, you know, because it’s like it’s tough to almost have to choose yourself over.

Craig Garber (06:57.236)
Yeah, you got it.

jim (07:19.198)
Um, you know, things that don’t work. It’s so, it seems like there’s a price tag attached to wanting a better yourself. And, and I guess that’s his point, you know, point, but, but you know what? There’s also a price tag to staying like in negativity forever. You know, there, there’s a huge price tag for that too. So, you know, that’s so that I think that’s the best, probably life advice, you know.

Craig Garber (07:36.076)
Yes.

Craig Garber (07:44.743)
That’s awesome. The good thing is you’re hearing a lot more people coming out with stuff like that. Now, I don’t think it makes it any easier to do that, but it makes it probably more accepting, for people who don’t maybe have the confidence to do that or like, but everybody, professionals now are giving you that as advice.

jim (07:51.904)
Yeah.

jim (07:56.842)
Right.

jim (08:04.219)
Yeah, like if you, you know, back maybe in the 50s, if you saw someone to talk about, you know, a psychologist or psychiatrist that, you know, there was a stigma attached to it or if somebody had trouble with drugs or alcohol, it was like now it’s just like, you know, even I think some corporate jobs like the like, oh, just go to rehab, you know what I mean? Like work with you on it as opposed to like, you’re a, you know, you’re a leech on society or something like that. You know, the harsh.

Craig Garber (08:24.876)
Yeah, right.

Craig Garber (08:31.504)
Right.

jim (08:31.926)
harsh treatment. But yeah, I mean, I think too is just the you just more like even just emotionally or neck, you know, just, just people that are, I don’t know, it’s like that show. What we do in the shadows. Did you ever see that there was a movie and then there’s a show on Hulu. It’s the it’s the funniest, funniest show I’ve ever seen. But in the in the television show, they you know, it’s about real vampires living together. But there’s one guy who’s

Craig Garber (08:48.827)
No.

jim (09:01.346)
who’s a psychic vampire or an emotional vampire. So he doesn’t drink blood, but he just wears people down, you know? And like, yeah, that’s right. So it’s almost like, you know, it’s just tough to, I have this childlike view of the world where I want there to be togetherness. And I don’t, you know what I mean? I want everything, I want there to be a spirit of unity and have it, or yeah, just to like, and…

Craig Garber (09:05.107)
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think we’ve all had those toxic vampires in our life. Yeah.

Craig Garber (09:26.479)
World peace. Ha ha ha.

jim (09:31.122)
And then it’s just like, oh, it’s tough. I guess it’s just tough doing the right thing or what you feel is the right thing. It’s just tough to do. And that was the advice attached to that. So that’s, I guess, how to cap off that question.

Craig Garber (09:48.615)
I think that’s a great answer. I love what you said, I wrote it down here. There’s a price attached to trying to better yourself and there’s a price attached to not trying to better yourself.

jim (09:57.794)
Oh, I mean, right. Like you might not have to go through feelings of abandoning people or them abandoning you. But in the long run, you know, you might be paying a higher price tag by not willing to go and deal with those uncomfortable emotions. You know, in the long run, you’ll be… Because time is finite and just how quickly…

Craig Garber (10:14.52)
Yeah.

jim (10:27.01)
the, you know, it seems like the older you get, the quicker the time goes. And it’s hard to constantly be aware of it, but it’s like, yeah, this is, this is like a temporary journey here. And I, I don’t want to, I don’t want to waste what, what time I have left, you know.

Craig Garber (10:39.931)
Very.

Craig Garber (10:47.279)
Yeah. I always say there’s a, you know, most, many decisions, and I think this falls into that category when the pain of not doing something is finally greater than the pain of doing it or just allowing it to exist. That’s when people tend to, doesn’t really tend to generally tend to take action. And that’s fair enough, you know,

jim (10:48.703)
Yeah.

jim (10:58.898)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. I mean, because it’s, hey, it’s, you know, and that’s the sad thing is, is that it’s, you know, it’s a, I think the pain is more acute when you take the action, because then people’s masks, masks come off. And it’s like, you know, it’s almost, I don’t know, maybe like a cell phone plan, you’re going to pay either way, you have to pay to get out of the plan. But if you stay in it, you’re going to have to pay more, you know, and I think that a lot more. So I think that’s the same thing emotional.

Craig Garber (11:15.544)
Yeah.

Craig Garber (11:29.147)
A lot more. Yeah, yeah.

Craig Garber (11:34.139)
Yeah.

jim (11:34.208)
It’s just a cell phone plan.

Craig Garber (11:38.425)
I like that. Hey, I want to talk to people about your new record. I want to be loved. You got a special offer for sale. Do you want me to promote it or do you want to talk about it? What do you prefer?

jim (11:39.682)
Yeah.

jim (11:46.914)
Sure, well yeah, I’ll tell you about it real quick. And then if I missed something, maybe you could point, you know, if I missed an important point. Well, the first album is available everywhere for streaming, you know, like so you could listen to the record anywhere. But one of the things that I thought would be cool this time around, and it only happened after post-production where we had all this video from the studio and then video of me doing overdubs.

Craig Garber (11:50.065)
Yeah.

jim (12:16.07)
And then in recent years, there’s all this stuff cropping up online of isolated tracks, like John Bonham’s isolated tracks from Led Zeppelin, or Motown without the vocals on it. And since this record was made, it’s like half live, but then the solos are overdubbed. Or I should say the record is live, but just because it’s a duo record, I overdubbed the solos. So I thought, well, how cool would it be to offer…

Craig Garber (12:25.657)
Yeah.

jim (12:43.606)
the record with no solos on it, so if guitar players wanted to use it as a play-along, they could. Release the record again as, and this is all part of this Deluxe package, the album without the drums. So you have everything but the drums, so if a drummer wanted to play along to it. And then the third thing is…

having the isolated solos without the tracks. So if you heard a lick, sometimes you hear a lick or something and it’s hard to hear exactly what the person’s doing because it gets meshed into the track. So I thought it’d be cool to just release the solos without the background tracks. So you could just hear everything clearly if somebody wanted to transcribe it. And then…

this weird instrument that I kind of came up with called the monochord. There’s a video that goes into detail about the tuning and the pickups and then, um, about 20 minutes of, uh, it’s just cell phone footage, but it’s, you know, it’s fun to see with me and Jim Keltner in the studio playing live. And then about 20 minutes of me doing solo overdubs. And then you also get the files for the full album also. So, you know, it, it’s a. I.

I just thought it would be an interesting, a lot of people have wrote to me saying they like the record and maybe it’s a way to go a deeper dive into the record if someone likes it. But then also, it’s also a nice way to support me as an artist because there’s no money in the streaming stuff. And it kind of, you know, it just helps me out a little bit to continue to make records in the future, you know. And so far…

Craig Garber (14:20.761)
None.

jim (14:30.75)
I’ve heard back from people and they thought it was well worth it and you know like the package is like seven and a half gigs of content and it just seemed fun to kind of put it into this cohesive thing and again just the other night I needed to practice and I was like I pulled it up and I was like man this is so much fun because now I get to play to that record and I have my play along.

Craig Garber (14:55.088)
Right.

jim (14:59.202)
that of the record that I just made and I can still practice over it. So, and you know, so that, um, and that was, this is the first time I’ve ever done anything like this. And it, it was, it was a little scary to do. It just felt weird. Uh, but, but it, but it also, um, I feel lucky enough to have played with Keltner a couple of times in the studio. And he’s like one of the best, you know, if not the bet one of the best drummers in the world and people

if they wanted to just hear even his drumming without the solos. It’s a way to study his drumming more. So depending on which vantage point you look at it from, it could be used for personal use only, obviously. But nothing was changed in the album, but it’s just different vantage points, and you can kind of zoom in on it and then see content that’s not available anywhere else. So that’s basically the Deluxe package.

Craig Garber (15:33.264)
Right.

Craig Garber (15:56.751)
Right on. So let me tell people where to get that and I’ll just summarize it again. It’s a good at Jim Oblon, O-B-L-O-N dot net, Jimoblon.net. And it’s right there on the homepage. The new album is I want to be loved. And again, it’s only 30 bucks. You get a ton of stuff. You get the isolated tracks of the rhythm section, the drum, the drum, the song with the drums removed, and you get the guitar solos isolated. You also get some video footage of Jim Oblon and Jim Keltner in the studio.

and Jim doing his solos kind of like behind the scenes. And you get a video on the monochord, which is a very cool instrument, which he plays, you’ll hear it on the album. And he goes into what it is and how he put it together and tuning and pickups. And also you get the files for the full album with it, of course. And again, that’s at jimoblon.net. And so check it out and grab that while you can. Any final words of wisdom, Jim?

jim (16:52.17)
I would just say that again, I made this as sort of like a love letter to all the stuff that I loved about that early rock and roll and early blues stuff right when it moved from rural to electric. So I would say if people, you know, not only I hope that people enjoy this record that I made, but the things that we talked about in this interview with…

If people haven’t gone back and investigated that early Howl and Wolf stuff, I hope that they go and check out that early stuff and then go back to listening to Bo Diddley a little bit more and go back to listening to Jimmy Reed a little bit more. So in my own way, it’s a tip of the hat to those guys. Obviously, I didn’t want to try and recreate what they did. It’s impressionistic. I mean, it’s a pretty left the center take on the blues. But

It’s definitely a tip of the hat to those guys and in my own way, just trying to keep that thing alive, you know, or keep the spirit of it alive. So I just like people to maybe check out the album and then listen to Bo Diddley, Howlin’ Wolf and Jimmy Readmore. So there you go.

Craig Garber (18:06.563)
Right on. Thanks, Jim. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed it, please share it on your social media channels with your friends. We appreciate your support. I want to thank Jim Oblond very much for coming back on the show. Again, go to jimoblon.net O-B-L-O-N and check out his new record and check out the deluxe packages put together. And most important, remember that happiness is a choice. So choose wisely. I actually got a negative comment about that. I’ve had like thousands of positive comments about that. And someone

jim (18:35.798)
Well, that’s…

Craig Garber (18:35.895)
Somebody finally managed to give me a neck. Look, how do you say something negative about it? All right. Be fucking miserable if that’s your preference.

jim (18:42.366)
Well, that’s one of the… No, that’s the one… When you get into your Ferrari of health, that’s one of the people, unfortunately, you have to leave in the dust, you know?

Craig Garber (18:53.525)
Yeah, yeah, it was like you missed the point. He’s telling me I’m like, it’s not. I didn’t miss it for me. I might have missed it for you, but like, you know, that’s OK. Doesn’t make you a bad person, but leave me alone. Be nice. Go play a guitar and have fun till next time. Peace and love everybody. I am out, bros.